BlogLab

Radio Talk
With Frank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2000; 1 p.m. EST

Frank Ahrens covers radio for The Washington Post. His column -- "The Listener" -- appears every other Tuesday in the Style section. Frank is also a general assignment feature writer, and his reporting subjects have included everything from minivans to murders, from baseball to bandwidth.

If you're wondering about the inner workings of radio in Washington, around the country and on the Web, or want to know what Frank really thinks of minivans, then don't touch that dial . . . um, mouse! Please join us for this discussion!

The transcript follows...

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

Frank Ahrens: Greetings folks, and thanks for tuning in on Election Day.
Have been hearing plenty of campaign ads, naturally, on the radio recently. Heard a Pat Buchanan one on WMAL yesterday (during Rush) that really cut to the chase: We live in a country now that allows homosexuals to marry, doesn't allow us to celebrate Columbus Day, etc. Say this for Pat: he doesn't pander to the center.
Which reminds me: Saw a Buchanan TV ad touting English as a the national language. A fellow was eating in his kitchen in the Non-Buchanan America of the Future and began to choke. He ran to his phone and dialed 911. The voice recording said, "Press 1 for Spanish, 2 for Korean..." etc. That's your tax money at work, folks (Buchanan got all Reform Party's $12.5 million in federal campaign funds.)
So, tell me about good/awful campaign ads you've heard on the radio, which will be fun to talk about today.
And/or: talk about anything else, as usual.
Let's go.

DC: Like a lot of folks around here I listen to WTOP 1500 AM for the traffic information on the way home. It requires that I put up with their commercials. Two things I noticed about their ads: one, the vast majority of them are either totally inane or full of almost-incomprehensible jargon, and two, it seems that the character proffering the good advice, counsel, or product that is the subject of the ad is almost invariably a female! What do these facts tell you about the target audience for these ads?

Frank Ahrens: That they are trapped in their cars?

Chantilly VA: Hey Frank, yesterday I happened upon a website that you and other radio geeks will love: go to http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/6375/origins.call-list.html

It's a list of call letters and what they stand for! E.g., location, station owners' initials, etc. It's quite voluminous, but not complete. I sent the site's owner some info on stations he didn't have listed and I'm sure you and many of your fans could help as well.

Keep up the good work!

Frank Ahrens: This is a terrific site! I just checked it out. If it is accurate, it is stunning. (Not all stations, but lots of them). For instance: It tells us that WMAL was named for Dr. M). A). L)eese, an optician. I'd love to get the story behind that one. John Butler/Willie Waffle, from WMAL? You tuned in today?

Northwest DC: Are you going to watch the election results tonight, or listen ? And if The Listener is going to do his thang, are you going to report to us next week which local stations did the best job ?

Frank Ahrens: I'm going to do both and yes, I'll probably have a mention of it on Tuesday.

Bethesda: Hey Frank,

I heard something on the radio yesterday that concerns me a little. I was listening to Z104 in the afternoon, and the DJ read off the joke email that Republicans should vote on Tuesday and Democrats should vote on Wednesday. The problem is, she didn't mention that it was a joke. I realize that Z104 is on the conservative side with their Bush connection, but I find it troubling that they would say something like that given their audience includes so many young people, a demographic with historically low voter turn-out. It's entirely possible that some people may not have realized it was a joke. I may be over-reacting, but it seems sort of distasteful.

Thanks for letting me rant a little

Frank Ahrens: That's a good point. Rush was talking about that yesterday. It is a widely circulating Internet joke. I didn't hear the way Z104 handled it, though. But thanks for the posting.

Washington, DC: Would you ever go on the Don and Mike Show? How about make an appearance with them? I'm serious.

Frank Ahrens: I have decided, re. Don & Mike, that I will not appear on their show as a participant. A couple of weeks ago when they called me the day the ratings came out, they egged me on to try to come on the radio but I declined except to go on and identify myself, so they could prove to their listeners they were talking to me. The reason I've decided not to go on the air is that I cannot be part of the entertainment of a show that I'm supposed to be covering journalistically. It would be like a theater reporter financially backing a stage production. It would be conflict of interest. And, if I did appear and participate in their schtick, I think any reader could fairly say I was biased toward them when I next wrote about them.

Willie Waffle, WMAL-AM : That's the story. WMAL began broadcasting 75 years ago when Milford A. Leese, an optician, used his initials as the call letters for the license he received in October of 1925.

Frank Ahrens: Great stuff. Thanks Willie. Wonder if Dr. Leese, or his descendents are still around...wonder what he would think of Dr. Laura and Rush on his station!

Laurie: Frank --

What is the deal w/Loo Katz? I thought heard him on WASH a week ago under a different name -- John Roberts?

Have you heard the commercials with various female on-air personalities giving their testimonials on how a laser hair removal system has profoundly changed their lives? I am waiting for some of the male personalities to come forward and tell us that they are using this system to get rid of their back hair. Yeck.

Frank Ahrens: What the...? I've been out of town for the past week covering the Lieberman campaign, so if that happened, it slipped under my radar. I know that Clear Channel (WASH's owner) was very interested in Katz after he left WRQX, but that they had to wait out his non-compete clause in his contract to talk to him (something like 30 or 60 days). I'll call them after the discussion.

WTOP: Many ads on WTOP are aimed at government buyers and others at the high tech industry. And they do indeed have their own jargon ! Commercials are read by staffers of both WTOP and sister station WGMS and there is no particular skew on females reading them. Just the coincidence of what this reader has heard while commuting.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks muchly, WTOP.

herndon, va: Big Frank: Using my scientific polling techniques (talked to one person at the Giant last night, and two of my carpool members) I've discovered you'll be elected President in a major upset!! May I be head of the FCC after you're inaugurated?

Frank Ahrens: Hiya, Li'l Herndon. A shocking upset, considering I dind't even know I was running. What a write-in candidacy! I think Gen-X Gurl may have to head up the FCC, but you can have Treasury, how's that? And Dubya (Airless Cubicle) naturally will be my CIA chief. All the lawyers can take over Justice. What an administration!

Annapolis, MD: Frank -

This may seem petty, but it bugs me. Have you heard WARW's Cerphe doing "The Story Behind The Song"? It's a rip-off of VH-1's Behind the Music. The thing is, WARW keeps promoting it (as the name suggests) as the story behind all these great classic rock songs. Then, the thirty or forty second sound byte Cerphe plays, more often than not, has absolutely nothing to do with the song! In fact, on what would have been John Lennon's 60th birthday, Cerphe ran a drop of Yoko talking about John, but once again it had nothing to do with any song! I know it's a moot point, but the premise sounded very interesting, and I feel like an idiot for getting roped in. I'm not sure if there's a question in there any where, but thanks for letting me vent.

Frank Ahrens: That's okay, venting allowed. I'm actually a fan of Cerphe and 94.7 doing this, because it's the sort of thing that will make them a deep and interesting classic rock station, instead of just a classic hits jukebox.

Chantilly, VA: Frankie-Baby:

Lighten up, my man! You can't appear on the Don & Mike show for "journalistic" reasons? You write a twice a month column on the doings of local radio.

I have heard other media types (reporters and such) appear on their show and others. They had a good repartee going for a while with Al Brumley from the Dallas paper. And your own Tom Shales appears semi-regularly, when there is a TV story in question, or when he writes about Kathie Lee.

IF it's good enough for Shales, why not you? Come on, it would be fun to hear ya!

Frank Ahrens: Well, the difference is Shales doesn't COVER Don & Mike. It may seem like an insignificant and fine point to readers, but it means a great deal to me and my credibility. No joke. My twice-a-month column reports on local radio the same way that this paper reports on the Supreme Court or the Orioles or Fairfax County government: it has to be fair and accurate. Now, given that it's a column, it can have a point of view, but it CANNOT compromise its journalism. That's the hard line. This has nothing to do with Don & Mike, personally.

Willie Waffle, WMAL-AM : Dr. Leese still has family in the DC area and they are fans of the station. I am supposed to meet with one of them to see some pictures from the early days.

We have a whole history of the station at WMAL.com under our Behind the Scenes section.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks, Willie.

The Airless Cubicle: Hi, Frank. I came out of the Cubicle to vote. Now I'm back in. Mrs. Airless is out there being an election judge - a special salute to her!

When I get home tonight, I plan to fall asleep early. Before I do, I will take a turn around the radio dial and see what I can hear. KMOX-1120-St.Louis ought to be interesting, considering the Carnahan/Ashcroft race; WCBS-880-NYC, WINS-1010-NYC, WGY-810-Schenectady, and a few others should cover Hillary/Lazio.

No, I can get the results off the television. But radio still has local flavor.

Congratulations on KDKA-1020-Pittsburgh, whose 80th anniversary was November 2. In 1920, they were the first station to broadcast on a scheduled basis, with the Harding-Cox election results.

Get out and vote. The other side is doing it. Dubya (no relation to him; Al is my cousin.)

Frank Ahrens: Great to hear from you. Good frequencies...especially the reference to KMOX. I was with Sen. Lieberman in St. Louis last week and that is one bizarre race. How do you run against a dead guy or his widow? Ashcroft's hands are utterly tied. "Dead Man Running," the press calls it.

rockville, MD: How long is DC101 going to stick with the inane Elliott in the morning, a big ratings loser?

Frank Ahrens: Well, let's take a look at the most recent ratings, delivered to stations a couple of weeks ago on Mr. Elliot Segal. His target audience is listeners 18-34, with a dash of 25-54 thrown in.
Among women, 18-34, Segal's show scored a 6.7, which is his second-highest rating in the past year and good for 4th place.
Among men, 18-34, Segal scored a big 11.5, good for third, behind only Russ Parr and Olivia Fox (WKYS) and Howard Stern (WJFK). This time last year, that show had a 6.3.
So I'd say he looks like a big ratings winner.

Norfolk, Va: I agree with your position about going on with Don & Mike. It would seem hard to be un-biased after going on in any form. IF it's not personal with Don & Mike (I believe you...and even think you might be a closet fan!), do you have the same feelings about other shows or stations?

Haven't I heard you on some NPR shows? Don't you cover them as well?

Frank Ahrens: Yes, I have appeared on the Diane Rehm Show (public radio WAMU and syndicated to other public radio stations) twice, I think, as a panelist for discussions on satellite and Internet radio. I have justified it thusly (and you are free to disagree with me on this, this is just my rationale): I have appeared on that show as a knowledgeable guest to discuss a topic, not as a sidekick to Rehm, which is what I'd essentially be on the Don & Mike show.

Bristol, CT: Not Washington news, but major radio news anyway. Hertige FM Talker NewsTalk 96.5 WWDB in Philly bit the dust yesterday. At 9am a computerized woman began counting down from 7300 to 0. At 5pm 96-5 The Point was born. The station plays all 80s music and will soon change calls to WRPT.

Frank Ahrens: That's an interesting piece of news. Because throughout the '90s, FM talk, especially "hot talk" like WJFK, really took off. I had been hearing signs that the Next Big Format will be '80s hits, either alt-'80s, like New Wave, etc., or MTV-style Culture Club, Duran Duran, etc. BTW: www.netradio.com has several channels you can listen to on your computer. They are not true radio stations--they are jukeboxes, or audio services--but I like the New Wave channel, under the Rock heading.

Fairfax: You hear talk about a format change at WTEM to talk, with Rush and Dr. Laura as the centerpiece ? What would that do to WMAL ?
How does WMAL hold the big audience lead-in they get from Rush and Dr. Laura in afternoon drivetime ?

Frank Ahrens: There are plenty of rumors circulating around since the Clear Channel Communications' acquisition of eight D.C. radio stations. (WBIG, WASH, WJMO, WTEM, WWRC, WGAY, WTEM, WMZQ). And those rumors center on Dr. Laura and Rush because Clear Channel owns their syndicator, Premiere. Currently, they appear on ABC-owned WMAL. Would Clear Channel take Dr. Laura and Rush off WMAL after contracts expire and put them on one of their D.C. stations? Possibly. Especially if they convent one of their underperforming AM stations--WWRC and WGAY--to a talk format. Or maybe they'll bring in other talent to those stations and leave Rush and Dr. Laura on WMAL. Quite frankly, I don't know what would happen to WMAL if they lost Rush and Dr. Laura. The station's highest ratings among its prime listeners--35-64--are midday, when Dr. Laura and Rush are on. They taper off during Chris Core's show then plummet into oblivion for Victoria Jackson and Charlie Warren. Tim Brant and Andy Parks have gone from a 4.6 to a 3.3 from this time last year to now among target listeners.

District: Re your noye about Elliott on DC101. His "target" audience. Isn't that a nice little cop out for just about any radio show? With SO many different demographics being presented, couldn't each show find one they are doing well in and trumpet that?

Isn't it also true that all advertisers care about are the adults 25-54 shares?

Frank Ahrens: Yes and no. I agree that radio stations can find some category, ANY category when their shows are doing well. However, advertisers care if your shows are doing well in the markets they want to reach. It would be completely irrelevant to DC101 advertisers if Segal were No. 1 35-64. They want to reach young listeners--18-34--and Segal does that.

Not Funny Z104: Hey Frank,

My 16 year old daughter heard the crack about Republicans voting on Tuesday and Dems on Wednesday and asked me about it! I told it was a joke and the station was probably slanted to voting Republican. She is just learning the real political process.

I am so angry about this!!! ##-%# Z104. I have since stopped listening to this station and told my kids to stop as well. I hope you post this so they know how funny it really was!

Frank Ahrens: Good point. Thanks for this feedback. For you conspiracy theorists out there, Z104 is owned by Bonneville (which also owns WTOP and WGMS) which is owned by the Mormon Church.

Alexandria: WWBD had been a successful FM talk station for many years. The really sad part is the 25 news and talk staffers were handed their walking papers yesterday, with no notice. Called in for a surprise 9am staff meeting on the day before they planned big Election Coverage. Very sad for us who toil in broadcast news.

Frank Ahrens: Wow. What a bloodbath. Just one more sad sad episode of the death of radio news, certain stations notwithstanding. Radio news staffs cost money and, in this era of heavily leveraged consolidation purchases, it's most cost effective either to farm the newsgathering out to Metro/Shadow or simply dump the format for a music-station-in-a-box. One WWBD listener asked the mournful question: Who'll do the Scrapple Festival now?

McLean, VA: Hello Frank-
Just wondering if at the San Fran. radio convention that you attended a while back, if there was any (new) word on whoever owns the parent of WJFK, streaming their audio signal.

(Would love to be able to hear G. Gordon Liddy as radio waves do not penetrate to my cubicle.)

Frank Ahrens: None. WJFK is owned by Viacom/Infinity and they have vowed not to stream audio until they can find a way to make money off it.

Bowie, Maryland: I once owned a mid-80's Chrysler New Yorker (don't laugh) that had an AM-Stereo radio in it. After I got rid of the car I never heard the sound again. Is AM-stereo still around?

Frank Ahrens: Wow. You should have saved that...what a relic! AM stereo, someone more knowledgeable than I pointed out to me, is a good example of why satellite radio ought to take off. The techies invented AM stereo and it sounded great. But almost no one HAD AM stereos to listen to it. With satellite radio, both companies--Sirius and XM Radio--have signed dozens of distribution deals with automakers (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, you name it...) and stereomakers. So they'll be satellite radios everywhere.
Of course, AM stereo had one significant disadvantage: the existence of FM, which always sounds better. AM stereo is sort of like putting a motor on the back of a canal boat instead of inventing the railroad.

Arlington: Who's going to carry the Orioles on radio next season ? And aren't the Redskins rights up after this season ?

Frank Ahrens: Orioles still shopping around. I think WTEM is the most natural home for them. And yes, Redskins rights also up after this season. If they keep losing, they ought to be a bargain...

DC: Hello Frank! I was reading a copy of Ad-Biz magazine last week and noticed an article about the local Don & Mike radio show. The article stated that last year their home station, WJFK, billed in ad revenue approx $22 million dollars. The article then stated that almost half that amount ($9.5 million) came from afternoon drive only. Is that amount normal for an afternoon show (the article seemed to imply it wasn't, and that their show made more than even the morning show, with Howard Stern, estimated to earn $6.5 million a year in ad billing)?

Just curious. You should check out the magazine. Look forward to your next column. How come it isn't weekly?

-Art

Frank Ahrens: Thanks for the info. Yes, that sounds just about right: I have some 1998 billing data that shows WJFK billing around $20 million, making it, along with WPGC, the area's top-billing station (WHUR was the wildcard...they had Joyner and I don't have their data). Typically, morning shows can account for up to half of a station's revenue, especially when that morning show is Howard Stern, as it is on WJFK. But when you have a wildly successful afternoon show like Don & Mike, who dominate their ratings categories, then they can be the station's big earners. I'm surprised I haven't heard them crowing about it on their show...(I can just hear it now: "We're the 9.5-Million-Dollar-Men!!!")

The Airless Cubicle: Thank you for my nomination as CIA chief, Mr. President-Elect. I will do absolutely nothing you can't plausibly deny to deserve the honor.

Is there word on the street who will be FCC Commissioner in a Gore or Bush Administration? What about policies towards consolidation? It is rapidly becoming a Bad Thing.

Dubya

Frank Ahrens: That's what I need in all my appointees: plausible deniability.
That's a good question, on the next FCC head: Whoever wins today, Chairman William Kennard is out. He's gonna move on to bigger things. If Gore wins, he could easily be in line for a sub-cabinet post, say deputy secy of Commerce. And if Gore wins, then I believe FCC Commish Gloria Tristani, no friend of Big Radio, is a strong candidate. (There was much wringing of hands at SanFran radio convention about possible Tristani chairmanship.)
If Bush wins, then I think FCC Commish Michael Powell--son of ret. Gen. Colin Powell--is a mortal lock. He has looked more favorably toward Big Radio. If Bush wins, I don't know what will happen to Kennard.

district-o-columbia: Frank-
three questions-

1. did you have fun on the campaign trail? (it was Lieberman, right?)

2. can you confirm that radio listenership is trending down nationwide even though profits are going up, up, up?

3. do you have any sense that broadcasters have any shame at all for airing the, uh, pg-13 content they program during daylight hours? is there any debate at all when you go to nab shin-digs? I really can't believe my ears when I listen to 106.7 (which is admittedly the market appeal - but at the same time radio is the hardest technology for parents to monitor). I mean, we all know 12 year olds are lapping this stuff up - would jfk managers really argue that 12 year olds are ready for howard and don and mike? does eddie fritts care about this stuff?

Frank Ahrens: 1) Yes, it was fun but exhausting on the Lieberman trail. Baggage call would be at 6:30 a.m. and the day would end at 1 or 2 a.m. 1,000 miles away. I came to think of it as data compression: about three days of content was squeezed into one chronological day.
2) Hours per week spent listening is indeed down, albeit slightly, over the past few years. Some ratings categories--like rap, hip-hop and black urban contemporary--are up, while others--like country--are down.
3) You make a good point and surprisingly, the same one that Howard Stern made: He said he doesn't worry about kids listening to his show because mornings are the only time during the day when kids are actually supervised. He said parents should worry about their kids listening to raunchy afternoon and night radio shows.

Stephens City, VA: To Bowie:

You're not alone...I have a 1974 VW Karmann-Ghia and it has the original AM-8 Track player. I have a hard time trying to find 8-Tracks that are not Country. Though I did find one Black Sabbath one and a Devo 8 track...

Frank Ahrens: Wow. A Devo 8-track.

KMOX : Grew up listening to KMOX in the '70s/80s, talk about News and Sports at its finest. What great vioces and programs.

Loved your story on Pacifica. I love their spirit. I say thank heavens there are people who care that much about the power of information.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks much!

Georgetown: Hiya Frank, had to type in early this week and, as they say on sports radio, hang up and listen to your answers.

Q1: Any reason why WETA has not released the figure for it's recent interminable fundraising drive? All they'll say on the radio is that it was "record-setting."

Q2:Do you know why RNR moved Damian out of his 10am - 3pm slot and into the 7 - midnight slot? Station decision or Damien request?

Q3: Is it my imagination or is WARW actually broadening it's playlist? I know they've started this play a whole album two cuts an hour over an evening thing, but have our complaints about hearing the same small circle of songs been heard?

Music Question: Of all the John, Paul, or George albums and songs released after the break-up, which one album and one song are faves? Thanks as always.....

Frank Ahrens: I'm sorry that I cannot answer any of these questions off the top of my head but I didn't want you to think I had ignored them since you said you were reading the discussion. I will get you some answers by next week.

Oak Hill, VA: I realize many are down due the 'Skins on field performance but I continue to be put off by the production quality of the radio feed. WJFK's focus on "on field" noise distracts, at a minimum, and often overrides the voices of the announcers. I'm sure this fits their "in your face" view of how the game should be broadcast but for those who like to listen it is difficult to hear the announcers over the sounds of the game.

Hopefully there will be a new station that has control over the game and the production quality. Maybe then the pregame and postgame coverage will be more professional and less driven by frustrated, testosterone laden jock wannabes.

Frank Ahrens: Good point. Thanks for the posting.

Shepherdstown, West Virginia: Not so much a radio question today, but as a fellow West Virginian and WVU alum what is your response to Don Nehlen's retirement announcement? On live radio no less. First Jack Fleming and now the Coach. Where is Cousin Brucie and Chuck Leonard now that you need them.

Beat Pitt

Frank Ahrens: I've saved this for the very last b/c for all the folks who complain I don't talk enough about local radio. Above is an entire chat about local radio. But I can't resist my two cents here.
I think it was time for Don Nehlen to go. I give him total props for taking a nowhere program and bringing it to consistent Top 25 status over the past 20 years. And I know that West Virginia does not offer good recruits. That being said, he has lost something like 8 straight bowl games. I always thought Nehlen was a good "B-level" coach and that was his ceiling. Of course, "A-level" coaches, such as Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno and Tom Osbourne are hard to find, but it's time for WVU to look.
Sorry for MY rant. Mom will have my hide...she's a Nehlen loyalist.

Frank Ahrens: That's going to do it for today, folks. Thanks for all the excellent questions and as always, sorry I couldn't get to all of them.
I urge all of you who haven't voted to get out and do so. Unlike most years, this time your vote really does count.
See you next week.

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